Between lives by R. Hubbard

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Subject: Between Lives part 1
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Between Lives

                                     23 July 1963

                                   By L. Ron Hubbard�

            All right? Okay. What's the date?

      [Audience:] "23rd".

            Twenty-third? Well, what do you know!
      All right, 23rd July AD 13, Saint Hill Special Briefing Course.

            I had two choices here. I'm working on an assembly line
process for you. I'm trying to smooth out your
      dating problems and that sort of thing. I'm collecting a lot of
information on that, all of it very important as
      far as tone arm action is concerned. I followed through that wrong
date or bad dating or misconception of
      date is the reason the tone arm action is -- and I found out that
the pc's time sense is his basic aberration.
      And therefore I'm working like mad to get you processes that
rehabilitate a pc's time sense.

            Of course, the most exaggerated statement you could make is
the time for a pc to run engrams is when he
      can call the date. And if you did that - if you did that, it'd be
absolutely sure that the pc would be getting
      tone arm action on R3R, see. And discovered a new rundown of R2H.
You're using an R2H in a training
      pattern right now. Well, R2H exists, of course, as a highly
therapeutic process, too, prac -- more or less the
      way you're doing it.

            But I've been refining it. Refining it. Getting it down to
about a ten-step action, which gives the maximum
      tone arm action. Aims straight -- I looked around for something I
could use, you see, to rehabilitate a pc's
      time sense, and there it was lying right in our laps. And so I'm
refining that to just rehabilitate a pc's time
      sense. And it does wonders for a case. And finally found that I
may be looking at a one-shot OT process.
      And simple as though it -- as it is.

            Actually, it becomes much simpler as a process to run than
the one you're running right now as R2H. But
      that is not quite ready to release. There are a couple of
questions that are being -- still kicking around about
      it, such as what happens when the pc gets into an engram and you
say, "When was that?" and he is very
      surprised indeed to be in this engram. And then you say, Well, its
bypassed charge is so-and-so and
      so-and-so." And he has to put that together for you while sitting
in the middle of one engram -- all very
      interesting. I've got to answer a couple of questions like that
and then I'll release it.

            The common denominator -- which is what I've been looking
for -- of case levels is simply that and no
      more. It's just the time sense of the individual. That doesn't
mean it's how well-timed he is, or this doesn't
      mean that Gene Krupa and so forth -- that's rhythm sense. But just
time sense. The whenness of things. And
      the deterioration of this sense is what gives you the case levels.
And that is about the end of that.

            There's tremendous ramifications to this. There are lots of
other things that can make the pc unhappy or
      aberrated or significances by the ton. But a common denominator of
case levels is time sense. And knowing
      that, then you could probably establish case levels, which we were
trying to do by test a short time ago, by
      some kind of a test of time sense. The whenness of things. As
simple as this: "What's your earliest memory
      in this lifetime?" you see?

            And the pc says, "Well let's see, I can remember back to
when I was twenty-nine," and so forth. You've
      probably got a case level -- probably a case level 7 or something
like that, you see. We got a case level 6,
      something like that.

            And you say, "Well, what's the farthest back you can
remember?" and so forth. And he's trying to puzzle
      around and he looks awful cloudy and you wonder what he's puzzling
about so hard. And he's trying to find
      out if he can remember back to breakfast. Well, you've got a case
level 8, don't you see? Or, if he can't grasp
      what you're asking him. No, but it is an indication here, of this
type of thing. Your best -- your best case
      programing, however, is a discussion with the pc about what
process -- because you're dealing mainly with
      long-time pcs -- what process have they been most interested in.
And you're liable to get a very interesting
      ramification out of the pc, is that they have never been
interested in the higher-level process. They were
      really making gains when they were running -- and they will give
you some other process.

            And that merely gives you the class of process, you know.
That doesn't give you just -- don't continue
      to run the process, necessarily, that they were running, that they
were interested in. But it tells you where
      the interest of the pc is along the case levels and therefore you
can run the pc and he will feel that he can do
      these processes. And you may be running a pc who is,
uncomplainingly and actually unaware of it himself,
      running processes he doesn't feel he can do. You understand? You
may be doing something like this, you

            And the pc's sitting right there slugging and trying, and
sweating at it and that sort of thing, and you
      just start being -- just a discussion of interest, see. Interest
discussion, that's all. And the pc says, "Well,
      they so-and-so and so-and-so" and they were really interested as
they were doing some 8-C at one time or
      another and they found that was terribly interesting, and actually
there's no process more interesting than
      that 8-C. Don't you see? You've got your answer right there. Now,
they've done an objective -- an
      objective-type process is one that they feel they can do.

            These are all on the lines of estimation of cases, don't you
see? But right now I have a little assignment
      for you, is just have a discussion with your pc on this basis.

            There's a bulletin will be out tomorrow on this subject
that's scheduled to go to HGCs. But you will find it
      considerably interesting and it tells you more about this
discussion, but actually more or less just what I've
      just told you. Just have a discussion with your pc as to what
process has been the most interesting to him
      and what does he consider an interesting process and all that sort
of thing, and put it down in your auditor's
      report. And don't necessarily shift his gears, but this is --
might be very revelatory to you and also to the pc.

            Now, I have a reality on doing a process that is too steep.
I've never had this reality before and -- this is
      the subject of today's lecture -- and I got confused and -- didn't
much appeal to me. Process was just a bit
      too steep. That's a brand-new experience for me, but I can
sympathize .with the guy who's wading along
      now and doing that sort of thing, running something that's a bit
over 'is 'ead.

            And I had some adventures recently that I'm going to tell
you about in this lecture. And if any of you
      faint or anything like that, why fall straight back in the chair,
not into the aisle and so forth. And if you start
      screaming or anything, why the -- I think the pavilion speakers
are on, aren't they? You can go out there and
      scream. Anyway, the difficulties -- the difficulties of
exploration are based on the fact that you can most
      easily go when you know.

            And I think the British motorist deserves the gold medal
amongst all gold medals for knowing before
      they go. I remember one time getting a routing from the Royal
Automobile Club for an African trip and they
      gave me little cards. And everything was measured off in tenths of
a mile. And I read these cards all over.
      You went over the top of a brow of a hill, you see, and there was
a small cairn of stones to the right and that
      was 1.7 miles from the point you had just left, you see. And then
down at the bottom there was a small
      bridge and it had a barn on the right, you see, and that was 1.85
miles, you see. And that -- going along and
      -- I read all these cards and didn't bother to take the trip
because it was...

            But exploration has its disadvantages. Definitely has its
disadvantages, because more than once, why,
      one finds himself out at the end of a ridge and there's no way
back -- he can't get up the sheer surfaces he's
      come down -- and he looks in front of him and he finds there's no
way down. And that is it. And so it can be
      too much of a good thing, not knowing before you go. You actually
can't know too much about where
      you're going before you go when you're doing anything like
exploration of the time track. And I've been
      fronting up on this for some little while and I find very few
times have I had any faint heart or upset along
      that until just recently. And I got the creeps, frankly.

            And well, it starts like this -- it starts like this: I was
up in the Van Allen belt -- this is factual, and I don't
      know why they're scared of the Van Allen belt, because it's simply
hot. You'd be surprised how warm space
      is. Get down amongst the clouds and so forth, it can get pretty
cold and damp. But you get well up and
      sunlight shining around and that sort of thing, it's quite hot.
And the Van Allen belt was radioactively hot.
      A lot of photons get trapped in that area and so forth. And I was
up there watching the sunrise. Well, that
      was very interesting. And my perception was very good, and I was
taking a look at Norway and Essex and
      the places around, you know, and getting myself sort of oriented.
And then something happened to me that
      I didn't know quite what had happened to me. I thought some
facsimiles must have appeared in front of me,
      but they didn't look like facsimiles. And some other things
happened and I had a feeling like I might possibly
      go into the sun. And a few other little uncomfortablenesses there
where... That wasn't what awed me. But I
      got confused. I got confused because the sun was suddenly larger
and then it was smaller and somehow or
      another I was doing a change of space process that I myself was
not familiar with. And it made me sort of
      bite off my thetan fingernails just a little bit, you know?

            And I said, "Well, I'd better look this over a little more
thoroughly." And proceeded to do so. And a bit
      later that day, why I did some reach and withdraw on the polar cap
and so on -- orientation. And we got
      quite a bit out of this because I was able to establish some reach
and withdraw process - I knew how the
      world must look to somebody who was in a body and had pictures
appearing in front of them and that sort
      of thing. I knew they could get kind of queasy about this

            Well, that wasn't what overawed me. What overawed me was
when I found out I hadn't been looking at
      pictures. That was upsetting, becau -- I was invalidating my own
perception. It didn't look like pictures, don't
      you see. And I was busy invalidating my own perception and so on,
and I wondered why I was nervous.
      That was what was really puzzling me. What was this all about? And
I couldn't quite figure out what had
      happened and then I finally did find out what had happened. And I
had actually appeared in a dispatcher's
      tower on Venus and had appeared back where I was above here. And
had done it like that. With no volition
      on my own part at all. That was upsetting.

            You start doing appear and disappear, you see, automatically
and you say, "What's happening? What's
      happening? You mean to say I'm going to be prowling around in the
stratosphere and all of a sudden find
      myself appearing and disappearing elsewhere without any volition
on my own part?" Actually, I didn't think
      all this through until later.

            But I thought, "Well, prowling around up here is a little
bit over my head just now. And I'd better know a
      little bit more before I go." So, that was some weeks ago, and
since that time I've been exploring around and
      finally found out what I was looking at. And you talk about a
fellow -- he's brought home this nice pet, tame
      variety of snake, you see, and he's put it in a box. And then a
snakeologist comes along and he says, "Good
      heavens, man! Where did you find that king cobra?" That's the way
I felt. I'd been looking at where you go
      every time you die, see? And I finally found out what this planet
is and why life is so loopy.

            Now, we've got some of this back in 52. Dishing it out
intellectually; I had a good intellectual reality on it.
      We'd talk about between lives area and we'd dished all this off
the cuff. This is not data which is unknown
      to us, don't you see? But that isn't the same as going there. That
isn't the same as going there with your
      eyes wide open. And realizing that all you had to do was to be
there at the exact point which you're
      supposed to appear at and willy-nilly you would have gone over
Niagara Falls through the implant, you
      see? And that is what has happened to me last few weeks, and... So
I've been studying this situation very
      hard and, as I say, I've come up with the data with regard to it.

            Of all the nasty, mean and vicious implants that have ever
been invented, this one is it. And has been
      going on for thousands of years. It's the most complete memory
wipeout system and the biggest bunch of
      lies that anybody ever had anything to do with.

            Now your understanding is that when you die, why somehow or
another about fifteen minutes later you
      appear in another body. Let's look at this thing from a time
disorientation basis. That is a lie. It takes
      sixty-nine days plus. More than sixty-nine days. And you very
often go -- see, this has upset some of our
      calculations. We've wondered what has happened to some of our
people, why they didn't show up again
      immediately, that sort of thing. You've gone as long as eight or
nine years between death and birth.

            Now what happens -- I'll just give you a fast rundown on
this situation -- what happens is, is you've got
      a compulsion to appear; this was why this yo-yo. see? You got a
compulsion to appear at the between lives
      return-point. And, of course, you just do a disappear at death and
an appear there. You don't travel to there,
      see. It's all nicely implanted and you're supposed to arrive at
this exact point. And having arrived at this
      point you go through the works. And the works consist of a false
death given to you in pictures. You're
      caught there and beamed in, and you get a bunch of pictures which
they have taken -- these aren't your
      pictures -- and it tells you all about the death you just died.
Only that's not the death you just died. They
      give you a completely false death.

            Now, this gives us a moment of pause, right at this point.
This is alleged by the way, to be a fifteen-day
      time track. It isn't. It isn't. It's days, but it isn't fifteen
days. And it says it's a fifteen-day time track, see, and
      this is fifteen days from where you last were. It starts with a
repetitive picture which gets you good and lost.
      In other words they keep giving you this same picture and this
same picture and this same picture so that
      when you try to back out of the incident you keep running into the
same picture, and you keep thinking that
      you've got the beginning of the incident and you haven't. You've
got a picture in the incident, see, and then
      you go to an earlier picture and you think you've got the picture
now that starts the incident, and that's
      wrong, too. So the trick is to get ahead of it.

            But that is -- can be varied one way or the other, and I
needn't go on about this, but usually you see an
      actual scene and then you see a picture of a scene. So then you
can't really get outside the pictures in order
      to begin the incident, see, so you can't find basic on the
incident. That's all that amounts to.

            All right, well this whole series of pictures represented as
happening in the space of fifteen days,
      counted off day after day, gives you your death which is a false
death. And it's not the right death at all.
      Matter of fact, in scouting this in session, I found a death
whereby I got me 'ead blown off about 1150. And
      they showed me a picture of a death by exploding bombards. It was
very interesting, because they didn't
      have bombards in 1150. Get the idea? They didn't have them for
another couple of hundred years, see. They
      weren't common. So they slip.

            But these pictures they show of your death are all Earth
pictures. I don't know how we explain this. It
      could be explained by them coming down and taking some pictures.
I'd hate to explain it so esoterically as
      they pick up somebody's photograph and photograph his facsimiles,
because in this particular character it
      wasn't possible. Either that or they, in some fashion, preordain
the destination of the society at that point
      and expect your pictures will be concerned with that, don't you
see? But they are Earth pictures, and they
      compare to the historical periods of Earth. For instance, a death
at 750 -- you get knocked off your horse, or
      something of the sort or die in bed with your boots off, and you
go up there and find yourself having died in
      a battle amongst knights. And have a helmet sitting on a cross as
your grave and so forth. That's not your
      grave, but it's a Norman helmet. Interesting, you see. Messed up
like fire drill. In other words, they give you
      the wrong death. That's the way it begins.

            Now, you move up to a point called the year zero. And thank
God they've got a year zero, because you
      can always date the incident by dating the year zero, because
there is no year zero on your time track. So,
      when you want to look -- take one of these incidents apart for
dating, always look for a hole, Look for a hole
      in the incident, you see, and you'll find something like, well
there's a year zero there. Well, good -- date the
      year zero. For God's sakes don't date the incident! And I'll show
you why in just a moment.

            Because they give you a future history of your life: This is
going to be your life. Television program
      "This Is Your Life" has no bearing on the thing at all, but I
often wondered why I could never bear the
      stinking program. But this is "This Will Be Your Life." And they
now give you from the year zero, which
      they communicate to you as the year zero -- this is given in
another room. This is given in a room alongside
      -- another chamber. See, your first fifteen-day period, that all
finishes up, see -- alleged fifteen days, see?

            Then you go to the year zero, and this is a great big room
-- great big room. And this screen is a whitish
      colored screen -- surround -- a whitish surround to a copper grid.
This copper grid is many feet long. I
      wouldn't -- haven't tape measured it; didn't have a tape measure!
I'm not really up there very high yet, I can't
      carry things around with me. Anyway, it's -- oh, I don't know --
at a guess, seventy-five feet, hundred and
      twenty-five feet, hundred and fifty feet, something like that,
copper grid. And it's very long and high, but it's
      much narrower than it is long, don't you see? Be on the order of
about three feet high and seventy-five feet
      long, or five feet high and a hundred and fifty feet long,
something of that sort, you see.

            And this has some compulsive effect upon the thetan, and the
whole thing is to make him make pictures.
      And they don't show you your future life at all. They show you
your -- what happened to you at the year
      zero, at the time you entered the universe. Now it so happens that
there are a lot of incidents where people
      have told you you entered the universe, and some happened not so
long ago and some happened a long
      time ago. And there can be such a thing as a guard room or
something like that, and there's a bunch of
      angels sitting around in the guard room and you walk in in a doll
body -- at the beginning of the universe,
      you walk in in a doll body, you see? Slight discrepancy there.
You're madly out of valence, you see. That's
      you over there. But it's a facsimile of some kind or another. And
the year zero usually takes one of these

            Now, there isn't really a picture in the whole sequence of
the next section of this. There aren't any
      pictures, you understand, except yours. So what actually happens
is from the year zero to the year one
      trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion years in the future,
you're given a compulsion to mock up your own track
      on this screen. And date by date by date by date by date, from the
year zero forward to one trillion trillion
      trillion trillion trillion years, you're given a compulsion to put
your time track up there. And all that's very

            You finally come to the second significant date, which is
one trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion years in
      the future. This is the wrong date, the wrong-date cake if there
ever was any. But you actually have put your
      own facsimiles from your own year zero forward to that far from
what you considered the year zero. Of
      course, this makes a scramble, too. But they're just your own
pictures. Remember, there wasn't a single
      picture in the whole thing except what you put there. But what did
you put up there? Man, you put up the
      early implants -- you put up the Glade, the Bear, the Gorilla, the
Helatrobus Implants. You put up the whole
      lousy lot; entrapments and everything else. And you just did that,
and this was probably in the course of
      the next sixty days. Not fifteen minutes -- sixty days. Long time,
isn't it? Sixty days of restimulation. And
      wrong dates.

            Those are all your pictures. You scan somebody through that
sequence and what are you scanning him
      through? You're scanning him through the misdated Helatrobus
Implants. You're scanning him through
      anything and everything that you can think of, all misdated. So
you'd say, "Well, all right, you can't scan
      through these things, so it's impossible to get through it." And
this was about the time I started to feel
      queasy and felt that I was just being run just a little bit over
my head. I was scanned through it twice and I
      felt that was a little bit over my head.

            Because to take at a gulp a scan through all of the goals of
the Helatrobus Implant in one single pass, it
      made me feel just a little bit odd. And I felt, "This is a little
bit too steep for me. I'd better find some way to
      take this thing apart so it can be taken apart."

            All right, so there's this middle period. That's in the main
room, the middle period. And how a thetan is
      moved through there I don't know yet. I think he must be moved
there -- through there on a very slow
      endless belt proposition. Very slowly. Fantastic slow speed!
Because he spends sixty days going past this
      cotton-picking screen, see? It's not that big. Putting his
pictures on it.

            Now we get to the third sequence. And this is far more
interesting because they furnish all the pictures,
      which I think is very sweet of them. They don't now try to pick up
any pictures. They throw you, usually --
      nearly always the same sequence. This is a very, very stable
sequence. It's a bunch of pictures, and they
      have some -- there's a -- they use a wavelength communication
system, by the way. Thought-concept
      wavelength communication system is all I can make out of it. Not
words. But you do hear some sound, and
      part of it is a baby crying, and they show you picking up a body
and so forth. And then they show you
      departing. And of course you depart and then you get another
picture of departing and you get another
      picture of departing, so you really never get out of that one
either, see.

            And then they show you a picture of being sent directly down
to Earth and channeled straight into the
      body of a newborn baby. I think it's awfully nice. And you even
hear the baby cry. I think that's good.
      That's good, it's very clever. And part of this -- and all through
this thing, you've got a false emotion of
      "We're just good Joes and we're doing our best for you." And you
get the feeling, "Well, we've..." I can
      imagine -- there's one thought concept in there which is terribly
interesting, which I imagine you girls have
      occasionally been startled at, which is "We've treated you like a
gentleman. Remember, we've treated you
      like a gentleman."

            Anyway -- you want to know why the girls are always wearing
men's sweaters and so on. But the whole
      idea and the whole emotional tone that's shot at you all during
the rest of this duress, knock-about,
      restimulation, misdating, scramble-up washout is, "We're being
nice." See? As a matter of fact you'll find
      that this -- I'll bet that you'll occasionally get a pc who will
say, "Well, they treated me well. I couldn't get
      along without this." You know, that sort of thing. Because that's
the prevailing emotion. No anger, there's
      nothing there. The light touch, see. The most effective possible

            Anyway, you then see a picture of yourself separating from
this planet. And how they explain that I
      don't know, but it's sort of -- it's just thrown in for good
measure because it said so on the blueprint, I
      suppose. You've already been sent to Earth, you see, in a -- the
thing is kind of mixed up. And you even get
      a picture of yourself being scooted across a desert on Earth with
yucca trees down under you and that sort
      of thing. And there you are. You're on your way and you're going
down to pick up this baby and everything
      is fine.

            See, you couldn't pick up a kid without them, you know?
Ha-ha-ha-ha! You couldn't do that, so on.
      Magic, you see, they have all these babies beamed, you know. And
all they do is ride you down the beam
      and you pick up the baby and you're all set. And there you are and
so forth. And this thing, then, with the
      multiple end so that you can't find the end of it easily (you
know, the end and then the end and then the end
      and then the end -- which is the end? and so forth) finally winds
up with what actually happens to you:
      you're simply capsuled and dumped in the gulf of lower California.
Splash! To hell with you. And you're on
      your own, man. And if you can get out of that and through that and
wander around through the cities and
      find some girl who looks like she's going to get married or have a
baby or something like that, you're all set.
      And if you can find a maternity ward to a hospital or something,
you're okay. And you just eventually just
      pick up a baby. You're strictly on your own, man. In a state of
total amnesia and gahh! Having been lied to
      to this degree with your track all scrambled, see.

            Well, in this sequence you're given a compulsion that the
next time you die you must appear on the
      landing stage. And that's it. That's the whole ruddy, lousy,
cotton-picking lot. This is an interesting -- an
      interesting thing, because this is the most vicious engram I have
ever seen set up. To scan through that
      thing is asking you to scan through a restimulation of a trillion
trillion trillion trillion trillion years of your
      own time track. Just asking you to do it like -- just like that,
see. "Oh, that's all right, just scan through it, you
      know. Ho-ho!" Can't do it, man.

            And to find the beginning of it -- well, there are other
ones with false beginnings and false endings so
      that you can't get out of them easily, but the time lie: this is
specifically fifteen days. This is your last fifteen
      days, you see, on Earth, you know? Only it isn't. And it's not
even fifteen days. And then the last section
      tells you that it's a hundred days long. You get a hundred days
counted off to you in there. But it isn't a
      hundred days, it's more like about nine days. And then having
channeled you squarely into the head of
      your new body, they dump you in the gulf of lower California.

            Very interesting. Because by the time you get out of that,
this is a type of facsimile that can't be run.
      Nobody has ever been able to approach even looking at it, so it
gives you enough queasiness so that you
      just tend to back right straight off from the thing -- how the
devil can you undo that?

            Now, because you've been given such a -- such a compulsion
to appear there... Here I am up in the Van
      Allen belt and I take a look around and I see the sun and I get
myself oriented and I'm just spotting myself
      around, you know, getting ready to flex a bicep or something like
this, and I just glance in the direction of
      Venus and I go -- I'm on the landing stage. See, the compulsions
shift me in space. I didn't stay on the
      landing stage. Still, I went up and looked around the airport,
took a look around the airport. I found, oddly
      enough, that I'd gotten curious about this place before, some
hundreds of years ago, and had simply hung
      around for a while and hadn't gone through the implant.

            But this has been going on for as long as you've been on
this planet. There's lots of these -- they run
      somewhere in the neighborhood of two to three per century. If
you've been on this planet ten thousand
      years you've got -- what? Quite a few of them. Figure it out for
yourself. That's how many of these
      confounded things you got. And as far as I know it hasn't changed
an iota. I could -- I'm saying a little bit
      more than I know now. But I think it -- it apparently was simply
set up and it's continued on. There's been no
      vast change of pattern, as far as I know. But I'm prepared to
amend that when I start looking at a few early
      facsimiles on it, which I haven't yet.

            The point is this: the Helatrobus Implants, the Gorilla
Implants, the Bear Implants, way back thetan fights
      and all of this kind of thing -- you got through all that. You got
through all that and you were still OT. They
      used to say about me that I'd never been the same after the second
Helatrobus, you know? I used to
      occasionally snarl at people more than I used to earlier. But
before I hit this place I was on the same post for
      eighty trillion years, same post, same name. Give you some idea of
stability of identity.

            Mary Sue gave the cue on this thing. She said, "Look at how
hard they have to work to keep you from
      being OT!" Hey, now, that's quite a thought! Isn't that quite a
thought? Hm? Now you look at this. You look
      at this, now. The complete idiocy of it. Somebody sits up on Venus
-- there are probably some other stations
      around up in the system. This one's on Venus. I notice that we all
believe that Venus has a methane
      atmosphere and is unlivable. I almost got run down by a freight
locomotive the other day -- didn't look very
      uncivilized to me. I'm allergic to freight locomotives, they're
always running into you.